Show Notes from Knup Sports Show

Show #197 – Mike Adorno of Hot Paper Lantern on Knup Sports Show

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RYAN KNUPPEL

Hey, hey, hey, what’s going on everybody? Welcome to Episode 197 of the Knup Sports Show. Super excited to have you here today. We are creeping up on Episode 200, I don’t really know if that’s cool or not, but I’m excited for that number for some reason, so we are creeping up to that number. We have another awesome guest today, I’m super excited, and we have a little history between our companies, which I’m excited to dive into a little bit here as we get going. But first off, I want to say thank you to you, the listeners, fir supporting this show, watching it out on YouTube, listening to it on Spotify or Apple, or wherever you’re paying attention to this show. Really appreciate it, and it keeps my, keeps my juices flowing, gets me going, and I’m excited to bring you another show today, and we’ll dive right in. So without further ado, I have my guest Mike Adorno of Hot Paper Lantern. Mike, welcome to this show, my friend.

MIKE ADORNO

It’s good to see you, it’s good to see you. I gotta tell you, usually, and this goes back to our relationship, is I’m behind the curtain on most of these calls with having my clients talk to you, so to be in the hot seat, and be the one, uh, you’re interviewing is actually quite the treat.

RYAN KNUPPEL

I love it. “Being in the hot seat,” you’re in the hot seat now, so you better be ready for the tough questions.

MIKE ADORNO

I think I can do it, I think I can do it.

RYAN KNUPPEL

No, that’s amazing. But yes, first off, thank you for all that Hot Paper Lantern does, you know, we kind of have this little partnership where we’re helping each other out, and you’re bringing some amazing guests over here to the show. Um, so, really just from the bottom of my heart, truly appreciate that before we get going here, Mike.

MIKE ADORNO

No, no, no, we appreciate you. You are, you’ve been a true friend for the past couple years, and we love working with you, so…

RYAN KNUPPEL

Awesome, awesome, so…

MIKE ADORNO

More to come.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Yeah, let’s dive in to you. I love, you know, the first thing I always love to do is just get to know the guest a little bit, and get to know you and kind of your path, and your background that led you to where you are today, so before we dive in to HPO and what all’s going on there, tell us about yourself.

MIKE ADORNO

Well, uh, I think the company’s a little more interesting than me, but, uh, I’m a, once again, Mike Adorno, VP of Communications at Hot Paper Lantern, and I have a more than 15 year career in public relations focusing in on strategic comms and media relations. I’ve worked with a number of different companies, I’ve worked with a number of different agencies, um, from The Corcoran Group to KPMG, and now here to, uh, to Hot Paper Lantern.

RYAN KNUPPEL

That’s amazing. So, you know, a lot of PR, that’s good, but uh, for those that aren’t familiar with Hot Paper Lantern, I mean the name, maybe some are like “Well, what the heck is Hot Paper Lantern?”, give us the thousand-foot view of Hot Paper Lantern, what you guys do, what you guys are specializing in, and things of that nature from a company side.

MIKE ADORNO

Fantastic. So, Hot Paper Lantern is a brand communications and marketing firm located here in New York City. Um, we provide services for, uh, specific verticals like financial services, healthcare, consulting, um, technology, you know, we have a number of noted clients like Ailyons, Nikon, Meta, um, and then one of the things that makes us great is that we are a midsize agency, so we are able to be nimble and try new things and branch out into different areas, and we created about four years ago, a specialty group within Hot Paper Lantern called HPO Digital Sport, and our sole focus is leveraging our knowledge of brand marketing and communications, and providing those services to sports betting, iGaming, and sports tech companies. So, in the past four years, you know, we work with public facing companies like Sport Radar and venture-backed tech startups like WagerWire. Um, and we’ve also worked with a number of noted operators from the fantasy and sports betting side, and the investment side as well, like Monkey Knife Fight and, uh, Fifth Street Gaming, as well as Rush Street Interactive and Circa. So, we provide services across the board, um, and worked with, uh, a number of the leading names in the industry.

RYAN KNUPPEL

That’s amazing. Yeah, I mean, we see you guys everywhere, and of course us working a little bit together, we definitely know a lot of the companies that you’re working with, but can you, I don’t know, can you name drop, and I know you have tons and tons of companies, but some of the big companies that you’re working with these days?

MIKE ADORNO

Yeah. So, right now, we’re working with some really exciting companies I think, and actually you just spoke with one of our clients from FTN, uh, Stefano from FTN. We’re working with companies like Sport Radar, WagerWire, and Playmaker. Playmaker, the media company, which is very cool especially with what they’re doing on the social side, so, um we’re working with a lot of exciting things, and we have some big things up in the pipeline, so we’ll keep you up to date on that.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Yeah, that’s awesome, and, you know, I wanted to touch, really dial in on one certain area, you know, I know, recently, you guys just did the HPL Digital Sport, kind of link a survey, right? And you’re about to dive in and tell us about this survey and kind of how it went, but tell us high level what this survey was, how it went, and who it was for, what you guys were surveying.

MIKE ADORNO

Absolutely. So, um, one of the core tenants of HPL Digital Sport is our commitment to building original data sets. You know, I think when you go back to when we started this group in 2019, there wasn’t really, I mean, this is such a new industry, there wasn’t anything talking about the bettor. Like, back then, the only data sets you could really find were Handle, and then all the crazy stuff that Mattress Mack was doing. There was nothing in between, right? There were those two poles, and then nothing in between. Um, and so we said “If we’re gonna be successful and we’re going to better ourselves in the industry, we need to create the market, essentially, and create the data that’s gonna push this forward.” And so back in 2019, we set out to create the first ever study that’s focusing in on the needs, wants, and behaviors of bettors, and that became our flagship study called The State of the New Sports Bettor, that we released in 2020. And it was amazing, and it started a lot of cool conversations and it really rounded out what that middle was. “What does the average bettor want?” Um, and, you know, we started getting some traction, and we wanted to continue building these original data sets, so in 2021, we were the first ever to measure and study answers from sports betting executives about what they feel about the market, and then match that with user expectations to show that dichotomy between executives and what users really want in the market, and going back to the original question about what we’re talking here today is we haven’t done the study in a while. We thought to ourselves, “We really, what’s next? You know, how are we going to change something? How can we bring something new to the market?” And like any good PR firm, we were, we talked to the media every single day, and at the end of last year, we had kind of a list of questions that we wanted to kind of ask everybody that we usually talk to, and one of those questions just happened to be “What do you think, who do you think is the most innovative sportsbook out there?”, which was kind of a throw-away question, but one thing really happened in every one of those conversations. Everybody said FanDuel.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Hmmm.

MIKE ADORNO

I must have done 10 of those conversations, and I swear, every single person said FanDuel, and so we circled back as a team and said “There’s something here”. If everybody’s saying the same thing, let’s figure out what it is.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Yeah.

MIKE ADORNO

And so, from that, we created our brand new study, which you can see on the screen, which is State of the Sportsbook: Media Scoreboard of Innovation. So, we also, actually, going back just to touch, we also figured out that nobody had ever polled the media before, the sports betting media, about what’s happening in the market. If you look at any other vertical, financial services, healthcare, politics, a great temperature gauge is polling the media. What the trends are, what’s happening, what’s kind of interesting, we’re gonna look for certain things, and it’s never happened in sports betting, so we have this great resource, this pool of media that we work with, let’s ask them, let’s figure out, they talk to all these executives, they talk to the subject matter experts, the technologists as well, they see everything across the landscape, let’s ask them what they feel. And so that’s what we built, and we got some really interesting data about how the media specifically is looking at innovation in the sports betting industry.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Yeah, it’s very interesting, you know, that FanDuel, I mean, they’re so much higher, and again, we wont dive in to the points and all of this, but, I mean, they’re double anyone else in the industry from the innovation side. That’s really interesting. What do you think, you know, made that? And I know there was a lot of pieces that went into that, but what are some of the key things of innovation that FanDuel stood out it, and maybe some of the others were behind or at least got mentioned for?

MIKE ADORNO

So there’s two tracks in thinking about how this works, right? So there’s the actual what the company’s doing, and I can’t really get too much into the intricacies of FanDuel because I don’t know it. From what I’ve heard from the reporters was the, especially the technology aspect. Owning a lot of pieces of their technology, being first to market, smart pricing, um, and a better UX experience for the users. Those are a lot of the themes that I heard. Um, I know a lot of other companies have to outsource their tech, they don’t own as much, it takes a little bit longer to bring things to market, which is why I think FanDuel jumped ahead.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Sure.

MIKE ADORNO

One of the other aspects of this is, you always have to remember, this data set is the media’s perception, not what bettors think, and it’s not what executives think or feel, it’s what the media wants. So the media only know what they’ve been told or what they’re reading, so while, yes, I’m sure, FanDuel is 100% ahead, if you look at the operators on that list, they need to go out there and tell their story, they need to showcase their product, they need to beta or test or demo these reporters and what they’re doing, or how they’re doing it, not only is it what they’re doing, but it’s the messaging and the stories that they’re telling about their technology, right? So, and I loot at Pointsbet or Bet365 of Circa, three books that are certainly not in the top four usually when it comes to handle, or at all when it comes to handle, but they are so far ahead on this list. So, they are doing something where they are communicating their tech, they’re communicating their story in a different way to showcase how they’re different and how they’re moving the needle in different ways.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Very interesting. And, it’s very interesting. This study, it’s super cool that you guys dove into this, uh, I’m sure you found tons and tons of takeaways and things that people are gonna be interested in. One of the other takeaways that I read from this, you’re talking a little bit about new entities, right, and some of the new companies that are emerging in 2023. Touch a little bit on Fanatics, because I know you guys kind of called out, touched on, not called out, but touched on Fanatics a little bit. It’s maybe their year to lose. Explain that, what’ve we got going on with Fanatics in 2023?

MIKE ADORNO

I personally believe there’s no company in sports betting right now that has as much momentum behind it. And, um, build up about what they’re going to do than Fanatics. They are this juggernaut just waiting to burst out, burst through the wall. Um, and they’re doing a very interesting thing, right? They’ve released information that they will be launching, that they will be doing certain things, but they are, there’s a lot of speculation, and a lot of people are writing stories, pontificating at what they may do, which is actually really interesting. It’s almost like, if you think about, like, what Lamar Jackson’s doing right now in free agency, he hasn’t talked a lot to people. It’s a lot of people speculating where he’ll go, and that story is just building, so Fanatics is just doing that. Their story is just building through people taking different pieces of information and expounding on it, which is fascinating, and I think, you know, from what we’ve heard and what we studied, yeah. It’s their year to lose. I think everybody can’t wait to see what they do, how will it integrate, what will it look like, how will it be different than the rest, will it have some sort of component with Fanatics Wearables, and have that type of loyalty capabilities where if you bet a certain amount of times you earn points, and you can get a shirt, or a hat, or a jersey, or what have you. I think people are really fascinated to see what they’ll do, because you can’t turn your computer on every single day or read the newsletters that are popping in your inbox without Fanatics Wearables, collectibles, or sportsbook being somewhere in the mention.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Sure. Absolutely. Yeah, I’m excited to see what they do, I think all of us are as you pointed out there. Um, you know, they’ve been making a lot of noise in a lot of different industries, moving into the collectibles and sports cards and trading cards and all of the above, so I’m excited to see what they do on the betting side. I think you’re 100% right that, you know, it should be a big year from them, and if not, then we’ll see. I guess it’s their year to lose. So, what else…

MIKE ADORNO

[Inaudible].

RYAN KNUPPEL

Oh, go ahead, Mike.

MIKE ADORNO

Oh, no, it’s just, I was about to say, the other interesting thing about Fanatics and the people jumping into the market is, to counter the data that we had from the journalists, we also worked with a number of consultants and analysts in the industry and we said “Do you know what would be really interesting? Let’s give them a preview of the data and see how they feel.” And so we got a number of really good quotes, and we included them into the study, but one of the really interesting things that we found – and everything really tracked, the analysts were like, “Yeah, this data tracks, this data tracks, this makes sense from our perspective,” – but when you got to talking to, like, a betting group like Fanatics, or incoming companies, one analyst had a very perceptive thought. With Fanatics, we know what’s happening. At some point this year, Fanatics will launch somewhere with their sportsbook, but this one analyst said “What people aren’t really thinking about is this DraftKings announcement with Disney. And, yes, it was a little bit nebulous from what they were trying to say, it was very unclear, they almost punted it a little bit, but when you really think about it, the backing of Disney, like, the resources of Disney, the brand of ESPN, and the DraftKings infrastructure, if you really think about that, and the analyst said “If they start articulating what they’re doing, or put it together, that’s an 800-pound gorilla just waiting to take some market share aware from everybody.” So, it’s almost like the cobra in the grass. Nobody knows what’s happening, there’s been that little bit of announcement, but the potential DraftKings/ESPN/Disney announcement is huge, but it’s just not taking off because there’s just no mediacy like with Fanatics.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Oh, man. Interesting. I’m sure you could talk for days about this, Mike. Like, you probably have so many little nuggets to talk about.

MIKE ADORNO

I love this stuff.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Let’s touch on some, let’s touch on one more thing. I’m not gonna keep you here all day because I know we’re all busy people, and I know you’re a busy man, but give me one more nugget. Give me one more thing that, I don’t care where you go with it, but something else that you got out of the study here.

MIKE ADORNO

Alright. So, at the end of the study we asked “So, what’s the innovative element that you feel is going to move the needle in 2023?”, and we kind of knew this was gonna come, but half of the audience was talking about in-play betting and micro betting. Everybody’s talking about it, we know it’s coming, we know there’s things to work out, but it’s very imminent. But, if you look at the different piece, if you look at the pie chart, there’s two things that really stood out to us. One was the 17% that said “the evolution of sports betting content”, and I think it was 8% or 4% that was talking about the loyalty part, the loyalty omnichannel rewards program. I think those are two very interesting things when it comes to innovation, because if you look at airline points or American Express or what not, those loyalty points really change a person’s behavior, and I know there’s a handful of sportsbooks that have dabbled in it a little bit, but to have those types of awards, or those types of loyalty points that you earn something later is so critical, and loyalty is not something that happens right now when it comes to sportsbook. We know the average person uses two to three just there. More people are price shopping across twelve. So, how do you build loyalty? And that’s something. But going back to the evolution of sports betting content, no one’s really figured it out yet. There’s so much content about sports betting, right? You got two guys yelling at each other to, you know, fave the Patriots, and then there’s social content, and then there’s people that, “-120, this is a lock”, and then there’s people that kind of dumb it down a bit “The leafs are 85% to beat the Canadiens tonight”, so everybody’s trying to figure it out. And everyone’s trying to figure out is it Twitter, is it YouTube, is it a podcast? And everybody’s experimenting in really different ways, and I think this evolution of innovation within the sportsbook is also going to maximize how content is created and utilized.

RYAN KNUPPEL

100% agree, and being a content guy myself, I love that one, and I think yeah evolution of sports betting content is definitely here and coming for sure. So, Mike, let’s shift gears a little bit, a little two-pronged question. Let’s talk about the future. So, one, what does the future for HPL look like? And then, secondly, what’s the future of this survey look like? I want to hear a little bit more about are you doing more of these, are you gonna continue to dive in to the surveys, so give me a little bit about HPL, a little bit about the survey, what’s going on in the future with you guys?

MIKE ADORNO

Yeah, well the future of HPL is we’re gonna continue providing the best services and council for our clients, expanding into different, new areas, innovating. Um, and re-educating ourselves so we can provide the best solutions and council for our clients. I think, next for the study, um, we very purposely built this study as a template, and to put in new topics. So, innovation is very, we were testing it out, it’s a very big idea, and it’s a very big thought, but it’s very easy to say “State of the Sportsbook: Media Scoreboard on X”, so we’re throwing around some new ideas. We want to do about a couple of these a year to see, and then redo them and see how things change. Um, so I think you can expect the innovation scoreboard to come out in the first quarter of next year, and we can see how FanDuel tracks, or if Bettor makes the list, or if Fanatics is on top, who knows? But, you know, we want to do other topics, and we’re throwing around some different ideas. Um, you know, we’re thinking about some things like M&A, we’re thinking about user experience, you know, the study has opened us up to a lot of conversations with other people, and someone else brought up responsible gambling, so there’s a lot of interesting topics, but I’d actually love to pose the question to your audience: With this type of study, and we have the ability to poll the media, what would you like to see? What topic is top of mind for you, and how would you go about this? So, we’d love to hear, we’d love to hear…

RYAN KNUPPEL

I wish we were live and I could put up a pull and start getting “beep beep beep beep beep beep beep”, all sorts of messages coming in, but because this is getting recorded and going out later we can’t do this, but we’ll make sure to put it up on social media, uh we’ll poll the audience, and for those of you watching this, make sure to check out Twitter and some of the social medias that we have and we’ll pose that question and try to get some idea generation going for you guys. That would be cool.

MIKE ADORNO

No, that would be awesome. We love it, and thank you so much for having me, this has been a lot of fun.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Yeah, Mike. I mean, 100%, this has been good. Congrats on the study. Congrats on the success of HPL, keep up the great work, you guys are doing amazing stuff, and I always like to end the show with any last words, anything that I missed, anything that you wanted to touch on that we didn’t talk about at all?

MIKE ADORNO

Well, um, I’d be remiss if I didn’t say congratulations on making the shortlist for the EGR Awards.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Thank you.

MIKE ADORNO

Couldn’t have happened to a better guy.

RYAN KNUPPEL

No, no, I appreciate that. Thank you, that was fun for us, so we’re excited for that.

MIKE ADORNO

No problem.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Alright, Mike. I appreciate your time today, and again, I’m sure we’ll have you on and your other guests on quite a bit in the near future, so good luck with everything, take care, and we’ll talk to you soon. Hey, if someone wanted to get a hold of you, actually, no, or download the study and get a hold of the study, how are they gonna get to it?

MIKE ADORNO

Yeah, so go to HPLdigitalsport.com, and then you can click on the ‘research’ tab, and it’ll be right there.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Cool. I almost forgot to ask, but we’ll definitely put up the link in the show notes and we’ll put it all over, so they won’t be able to miss it, but I’m glad you were able to put that out there.

MIKE ADORNO

No, no problem. Thank you for having me, this has been awesome.

RYAN KNUPPEL

Alright, Mike. Take care, talk to you soon.

Alright, that was Mike Adorno, Hot Paper Lantern, one of the great guys in the industry. It’s been a pleasure getting to know him over the years, and really getting to know what HPL stands for and what they’re doing. Doing some awesome things. Hopefully you’ll get to go out there, download the study, take a look at it, we touched on quite a bit that was going on in the innovation side of it, and then we’ll also pose the question, like Mike said, what do you want to hear from them next? What kind of study would you like them to do in the future? And we’ll pose that question, so if you have any comments, make sure you comment on that with your thoughts, and we’ll go from there. Alright, that’s all I have for you today. Checking out of Episode 197. I’m Ryan Knuppel, you can find me out on any social media @ my name, or @Knup, however you want to find it. Appreciate your time today, and stay safe out there, enjoy the final four this weekend, this should go out before the final four, but enjoy the games, they’re gonna be awesome. We’ve got a bunch of, maybe a bunch of teams that people weren’t expecting to be there, but it’s gonna be fun regardless, so enjoy that, and then baseball starting up as well, so enjoy the sports time as we’re going on. Alright, til next time, I’m Ryan Knuppel. Take care, talk to you soon. Bye-bye.

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