In this episode of the Knup Sports Show, Ryan Knuppel sits down with Paris Smith, a trailblazer in the iGaming industry and co-founder of Defy the Odds. With nearly 30 years of experience, Paris shares insights on leadership, innovation, and her exciting new venture, Defy the Odds, alongside two other powerhouse women in gaming. Tune in to hear Paris discuss her journey from the early days of gaming to helping startups thrive in today’s dynamic market, all while staying true to her passion for supporting others and building success.
Ryan Knuppel
Hey, what’s going on, everybody? Ryan Knuppel here. Episode two hundred and thirty five of the Knup Sports Show. Hope you’re doing well today. Thank you so much for tuning in once again. We have an amazing guest today. I cannot wait to dive into this guest. I’ve been trying to get her on the show for, I don’t know, it feels like years. But finally, I have her on the show, and I think you guys are going to enjoy this one.
But first, we’re just a week away from SBC Summit Lisbon. Proud Media Partners with SBC. We love everything they do. So if you do not have your ticket and you are going, use New Partner VIP as your promo code. That’ll get you an amazing discount to the event. I’m sure most of you have your ticket by now, so, man, enjoy that event. I’m super, super jealous of you going. I can’t go anywhere. I can’t go personally, but I’m going to be there in spirit. So please enjoy that, and we know SBC is going to put on an amazing show there in Lisbon.
All right. I think that’s all I have to get started. Man, football has been amazing. Hopefully you’re enjoying football. But let’s dive into my guest today. Super excited to jump into this one. Let’s bring on Paris Smith of Defy the Odds. Paris, how are you?
Paris Smith
I am fantastic. Thank you. This is very long awaited for myself as well.
Ryan Knuppel
Absolutely. I think, like I was telling you before the show, we were talking around episode two hundred to have you on. Now, thirty five episodes later, here you are. But hey, better late than never. I’m excited to have you on, Paris.
Paris Smith
Yeah, thank you so much. And the timing is perfect with the recent launch of Defy the Odds. So, very exciting.
Ryan Knuppel
Absolutely. I can’t wait to hear about Defy the Odds. But first, you know, you have such an amazing career and history in gaming. And so I think what I’d love to hear and what the guests would probably love to hear is a little bit of your background. Starting from the beginning to where we are today, why don’t you give us a little bit of a background about yourself in gaming?
Paris Smith
Well, I don’t have that much time because next year is thirty years, if you can imagine. I started right after college. But yeah, I started in Antigua in nineteen ninety five. What I love about my particular story is the fact that I started as a clerk taking bets. And through that, I helped create and build the company that I worked for called Worldwide Telesports. The benefit of that is I always understood and appreciated and empathized with every area of the industry, of the organization.
You know, I helped create departments when it was just, you know, a sportsbook that took bets. You know, then you have to create marketing and finance and HR and IT and development. I mean, it’s, you know, obviously now they’re huge organizations. And so I did that, and then I worked my way into marketing director, then VP. After eleven years of that, I moved to Curacao to run Pinnacle. And just an amazing opportunity, again, from a little girl from North Dakota. I’ve always just felt very grateful.
And the people that I’ve worked with, that’s really kind of the crux of why I am who I am. A lot of hard work, of course. But I think watching the industry from its infancy to where it’s at, and then the recreation of that. So you had the offshore, then you had to go European and recreate yourself. Then you have to go back to the US and recreate yourself. It’s just so dynamic and exciting. So that’s really my passion.
What I’m loving right now, so I left Pinnacle about a year and a half ago. I started a company called Life Winning because I feel like I’m winning in life. You know, I’m really fortunate. And in that company, I really just want to help people. That was the main focus. And I worked a lot, so I had tons of time. And I started listening and looking at products that I wouldn’t have looked at before because they weren’t in the wheelhouse of Pinnacle. And just got really interested in the entrepreneurs themselves, the products that they have, and organically started doing some angel investing.
I think what excites me about that is it reminds me of thirty years ago when we were creating the industry and creating products and creating what it is today. So I’ve kind of gone back to my roots, back to helping people and hopefully creating some really amazing products in the future and businesses.
Ryan Knuppel
Thirty years in the industry. That’s quite amazing. I mean, you’ve seen it all, like you said, you kind of took us through that journey. You know, I remember back in the thousands, I think it was, or late nineties, whenever that was, when Pinnacle was like, you know, one of the big brands. It was the brand, like everybody’s doing things, and we were doing things with it as well. And it’s like, wow, it’s full circle to today here in the United States. And it’s just all these brands, and people don’t think about the old brands that were there. Right? Amazing stuff.
But really cool. I’m sure you have like hundreds of stories you could tell from back in those days, but we’re not here for that long today. We’re going to talk about what’s going on now. I’ll go a little bit about Life Winning. You said Life Winning, right? Is that just for gaming entrepreneurs?
Paris Smith
It’s really everything. But it’s, you know, I mean, my life is in the gaming sector. So I haven’t found anything interesting to go into outside of it, but I’m totally open for that. It’s a lot of advising and consulting. You know, I’ve seen it all. You know, I’ve had these counterparts in the investment community that have taught me so much in a year. I feel like I have an MBA in investments talking to Chris and Lloyd and Benji and the whole group. David, they’re amazing teachers to me.
But taking my experience and expertise in operations and gaming, I have a good gut instinct of what’s going to work. Looking from the investment perspective, that’s where I’m hoping Life Winning is going to add value. And then on the leadership and advising strategically because I know the whole industry, I know all the different players, so I can kind of piece everything together and help navigate for different entrepreneurs what is their potential next step, what are some things they may not have thought of, and add some value in that regard.
Ryan Knuppel
I’m sure it’s quite a different role for you being now advising and down that path compared to being CEO of one of the biggest brands. Talk a little bit about that difference, and are you liking that? What are you missing? What are you not missing? Talk a little bit, I’m sure it’s a whole different mindset for you going into this space.
Paris Smith
Yeah. You know, and it’s funny because I miss the team of Pinnacle, of course. You know, most of them I brought in. They’re really fantastic. That’s what I miss. I don’t miss, you know, when you… I kept saying over the last five years, like, what’s my shelf life on this? Most of my counterparts that are CEOs, it’s like five, ten years max. And here I am stretching it out. So I’m grateful for it, for sure. But I don’t miss it in regard to now I’m doing everything about the job that I love. That’s what I’m doing today. The stressful day to day, you know, gaming is… it’s really hats off to those that are driving these big businesses. It’s every day. I used to say there’s a new catastrophe looming over our heads every day.
And, but that’s part of why we love it. Now it’s just like a little, you know, OK, you know, I’m a little bit tired of that. So yeah, I’m doing all the parts of my job that I love, the networking part. You know, putting people together, understanding and learning new things every day, really emphasizing the people. You know, I’m dealing a lot with people that have, you know, dreams and visions and super, super intelligent. And I love that. That really motivates me.
Ryan Knuppel
That’s amazing. Let’s dive into Defy the Odds. Three powerhouse women in the gaming sector come together and form Defy the Odds. I was blown away when I saw the press release last week or a couple weeks ago, whenever that was. I was like, yes, yes. Three of my favorite people in the industry getting together, going to have an amazing company. Talk a little bit about your co-founders and your team and what you guys are doing with Defy the Odds. I’m going to pull up the website on the side as well here, but talk a little bit about that venture that you’re going through.
Paris Smith
Well, to be part of the trio for me is absolutely an honor. You know, they’ve helped me so much in my career. We ended up having a little powwow. I’m obviously a huge fan of Curacao, so I brought them to Curacao, and we spent almost a week or a few days literally in the pool with a whiteboard talking about all of our different ventures, talking about Life Winning. I wanted their feedback and input.
And that’s where it was born, because we just constantly help each other. We support each other. We support so many people in the industry. It was just like a huge light bulb. And with the network that each one of us has, and Kelly and Sue, their network is phenomenal. It’s very different than mine. So I feel like I get more out of it than I’m giving back to them, but I’m still trying to pull my weight. But it’s just a really beautiful blend of people that love and care about the industry. We’ve always helped people within the industry. And it’s a way of giving back, but yet also creating a business.
The goal is to create a business where we can employ people and help people employ people and just keep this energy of the industry going and create innovation. I think a lot of times people don’t realize that a lot of innovation comes from diversity. And, you know, that’s something that they actually taught me. So, you know, bringing this awareness, that’s a huge part of our goals. And just helping people along, making a business out of it. We’ve been doing it organically for years. You know, when I go to conferences, I keep saying, like, there’s probably twenty, thirty stands at these conferences that I met as a guy coming soon, inviting them to the conference to see the industry. And now they’ve created an entire business like, you know, she was just there helping. You know, it’s not like we’re mother hens, but we do provide a lot of like, you know, kind of safe support, if you will.
Ryan Knuppel
Congratulations on that launch. We’re going to dive in a little bit more here in a bit. But yeah, I’m blown away by the amount of startups in this space. And I mean, heck, this show is halfway built on the startups from this iGaming industry. We’ve done two hundred thirty five episodes. I bet one hundred and seventy of those are somewhat startups that are doing something in gaming.
And so it’s been amazing over the last five years to just see these companies grow and build. And now, you know, with you guys being able to help them and guide them, it’s going to be amazing. And I’m sure there’s only more to come, right? There’s so many people out there thinking of great ideas and coming up with great ideas in this space. So having your all-star team to help mentor and drive them from the beginning is going to be really cool.
Paris Smith
It’s exciting and it’s such an amazing ecosystem, you know, from the startups to the launch pads to the incubators. You know, it’s, you know, and we’re already collaborating with Zero Labs, which I’m a massive fan of. That’s, you know, that’s a whole nother level and component of what will create success for new entrepreneurs. And then we’re also working with the Venn Group. That’s really on leadership. You know, for me, when I was within Pinnacle, I always felt like one of my competitive advantages was the team.
So, you know, to give people an opportunity to meet and kind of understand the high-performance flow, you know, we’re going to be doing a day on Monday, I believe it is, at GII, where we have their experts along with other professionals, me, professional athlete Dawn Davis, and I believe we’re trying to get somebody from Flutter or FanDuel or DraftKings, one of those amazing companies, and just talk about leadership. So, you know, I’m just trying to give everybody the tools to be successful.
Ryan Knuppel
Yeah, that’s great. And win in life. Yeah. And I love the way you guys come about this, you know, because I think sometimes advising and advisories and some of these, people can look at them in a negative light. And I think, you know, the way you guys come about it from a just a genuine, hopeful mentality. And you all three possess those qualities. You’ve always been there to help anyone that needs it. Nothing back in return for however many years, you know. And now coming into it from a business side just makes it all that much more genuine and refreshing.
So, you know, it’s going to be fun to watch the growth of Defy the Odds, and I’m excited to watch you guys continue to help people and now get a little something out of it, you know, a business growing on the side of it as well.
Paris Smith
Yeah. Yeah. It’s a very, very exciting time.
Ryan Knuppel
Super cool. You mentioned G2E. I’ve seen you at many events. We’ve connected at many events. Always, always love to see your face and chat and catch up. I’m assuming Defy the Odds is going to be at some of these events coming up. You mentioned G2E. What else are you guys planning on attending and being a part of?
Paris Smith
SBC Portugal, of course. That one I am, I’m super, super excited about. I feel like that’s going to be the European winner very, very soon. And then, you know, like with all the different conferences that, obviously Sue and Kelly, you know, they’ve helped many of the conference organizers be the amazing… you know, they participated in the success of these. So we’ll be supporting as much as we possibly can and getting support from them for SBC, GII, EGR, ICE, and also, you know, the Next.io. Those are some great leadership and investment conferences that are unique and very complementary.
So, you know, I try to go to, I’m just such a firm believer in making the investment to go to the conference so you can network, understand the industry and, you know, understand, you know, and see where you could be. You know, not some of those big stands at ICE, but you know, for sure.
Ryan Knuppel
For sure. See where you fit in. Yeah, the networking side of it and just, you know, really becoming friends with the industry is fun and important, especially if you do have a business growing in the space. Cool. Well, hopefully I’ll see you—I won’t see you in Lisbon, I’m bummed about that, but I will see you in G2E, so that’s going to be amazing.
What’s the future look like for Defy the Odds? I mean, I hate to talk about the future. It’s like you guys are one or two weeks into this venture. But, you know, I guess from, you know, Life Winning to Defy the Odds, what’s the future look like for you, Paris? Are you happy, you know, just kind of going down this path of growing a couple of businesses side by side? What’s that future look like for you?
Paris Smith
You know, my portfolio is extremely broad. Right now, I’m at about ten personal investments. And working with, um, I do a lot of work with the owner of Pinnacle. Um, you know, just he’s, uh, he’s very entrepreneurial, uh, helping and, and anything I can do for Pinnacle, obviously I do that. But I think, you know, there’s so many, just like I ask entrepreneurs to be open and pivot. That’s basically where Life Winning and Defy the Odds are going to be. You know, there’s needs, everything. And the excitement of the industry is it’s so dynamic, and it constantly is shifting.
You know, we’re looking at all these different investments, for example. You know, I’ve got Kiro and Rhythm and Forever Network and Hot Takes and Sharp Stakes. And oh, my, I don’t want to forget anybody, but I’ve got a lot. And, but, you know, then I’m, you know, getting ready for a conference, having a conversation with the European leaders. I’m going to be moderating a panel for them. And, you know, they’re like, well, what we want from innovation and entrepreneurs are solutions for responsible gaming regulations.
You know, and it’s like, it’s so interesting because people want to do the exchanges and the ancillary products for the sportsbook. But the reality is, you know, at some point, and what Defy the Odds wants to do is look at what do businesses want and let’s try to put them together with an entrepreneur or tech-savvy person that can create solutions. And, you know, with regulations and all the changes that are just constant and regulations creating exits, like there’s so much happening in this industry.
There’s a million, you know, it’s never going to get boring. Everybody’s always going to have a job doing something, whether it’s payments. You know, that regulation side, though, that’s really becoming interesting. And how, you know, it’s not like, what is the intention of regulation? Is it to protect the players and create a tax base? Right now, they’re not protecting players. They’re protecting businesses, right? So, kicking everybody out in the U.S. who’s even close to looking like a winner.
There’s so much disconnect and disparity amongst what is the actual goal. I think there’s a million solutions that are required.
Ryan Knuppel
Thank you for that. Thank you for that, Paris Smith. That’s my rant.
Paris Smith
That was not a rant. That was a great answer. That was a great answer.
Ryan Knuppel
All right. I’m going to put you on the spot here real quick because I’d be upset at myself if I didn’t tap into that brilliant mind of yours. A lot of our audience here is maybe startup business owners and CEOs and aspiring leaders in sports business and people trying to do amazing things. Many of them are doing amazing things, but everyone aspiring to continue to get better.
You’ve had a winning career, a winning life, as your business mentions. Give us, I don’t know, a couple of winning tips, just very surface-level, very high level. If you could give other CEOs, other leaders, just a couple of very high-level tips to live by, to get going with, give us some business advice here that we can all relate to and grow from.
Paris Smith
Well, I guess what I’m going to be telling you is what I wished I would have done. But I think from a leadership perspective, it’s really about your team. I’ve had tons of success in Pinnacle. I’ve never felt like I did it. I always felt like we did it. And it’s hard because, especially for the public companies, the CEO is really looking for the street, and then you have to run your business. There’s so many disconnects with management. There are people that are in management that shouldn’t be in management.
But you know, you can fix that by putting in training and time and mentoring. But you know, I don’t think people understand—a couple of bad eggs can actually take away the momentum and the value in a business. So just be aware, listen, and listen to your teams. I’ve gotten my biggest successes from the people on the floor of Pinnacle. They talk to the clients. They know what’s wrong. They know what people are asking for. So listening is a big tip.
Also, you know, you have to go with your gut. You know, I think a lot of times we try to be a little bit too inclusive as leaders and get too much information, not really appreciating. Everybody has an agenda. Everybody has their own initiatives, what they’re trying to create. And then from a startup perspective, I think, you know, know what is out there. I have seen a million decks, OK, we’ll say maybe seventy-five, that say we have the most hybrid exchange that does all these special things that nobody else’s does. And I’m like, well, I just saw six decks that say the exact same thing.
So understand what is out there. And, you know, I guess everybody has their passion. But, you know, if you’re going to have to raise money, know that you’re raising money against twenty, fifty, a hundred other people that are doing the same thing. You know, people count how you present your business is super important. I personally look for leadership skills in the entrepreneurs and, you know, because they’re creating products, right?
If they don’t have the leadership capability, I look for that vulnerability and humility to be able to say, you know, well, I want to take it to a certain point. And you can see that and then have somebody come in to help drive the business. Because creating a product and running a business are two very, very different things. And, you know, I think sometimes there’s a lot of great products that don’t get off the ground because the founder wants to try to do it on their own. And it’s, you know, it’s a dog eat dog world in the business side. So little pointers points. I hope they relate to everyone.
Ryan Knuppel
They certainly related to me as well. So thank you, Paris. I appreciate that. That was, uh, always stay true to yourself. Stay true to yourself as well. Invest in your team. Listen, go with your gut. Stay true to yourself. Some great advice from one of the best in the business.
Paris, I’ve kept you on five minutes longer than I said I would, but I really appreciate your time today. Any last words, anything we forgot, anything you wanted to touch on that maybe we haven’t yet?
Paris Smith
No, I think you covered everything well. I love the fact that the sports show that you have, it’s more than just sports. And it’s really important for people to understand that throughout the sports betting side and the gaming side, there’s a whole ecosystem infrastructure that is thriving and really the backbone of the support for everything.
Ryan Knuppel
Awesome. Amazing. Hey, real quick, where can they get more information about Defy the Odds or about any life winning? Get a hold of you. What are all the channels?
Paris Smith
LinkedIn. LinkedIn is the best way. Just DM or go to, for Life Winning, it’s still me. I’m not as organized as Defy the Odds, unfortunately. Kelly’s the master. So yeah, if you just go to the website, you can get any information that you need. And, yeah, and we’ll be able to reach out. And, you know, the one thing you’re always going to get is honest, true feedback that, you know, we’re only here to help.
Ryan Knuppel
Amazing. Well, thank you for your time today, Paris. Enjoy your time in Lisbon. And I will see you in Vegas at G2E in person. All right. Take care. Thank you.
Paris Smith
All right. Bye-bye.
Ryan Knuppel
All right, that was Paris Smith, episode two hundred and thirty-five in the books. What a great, great, great human being doing amazing things in iGaming. Hopefully you enjoyed that. Got some value out of that as well. If you do see them, any of the Defy the Odds crew at any of these conferences, make sure to say hello and just tap into their brains. They’re doing some amazing things.
All right, that’s it for this show. I have others on the docket, so please subscribe. Click the little subscribe button. We are out on iTunes. We’re on YouTube. We’re on all the different places. So enjoy your time in Lisbon if you’re going. If you are going to G2E, please reach out to me as well. I’d love to meet you and say hello and go from there.
All right, until next time, stay safe. Talk to you soon. Have a great one. Bye-bye.
Relevant Guest Links
- Learn more about Defy the Odds on their website.
- You can connect with Paris Smith on LinkedIn.
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