Listen in as Michael Wrobleski of Sunny Vibes Ventures talks about his days as Director of Operations with DraftKings, his current role as an industry consultant, and about some of the large US States chances of becoming legal with sports betting.
Ryan Knuppel
Hey, what’s up, what’s up, what’s up. What’s going on everybody. Ryan Knuppel here, Knup Sports Show episode 154. Hope you’re all doing very well today. It’s Thursday, January 27th. At the time of this recording, super excited to be here. We have another awesome guest in the iGaming industry today. Excited to introduce you all to him here in just a few minutes, but first of all, thank you for watching. Thank you for tuning in.
As you can see, we got a nice little background here. We’re kind of starting to make things a little brighter and better, which is always the hope right? Is continue to develop as a show and really appreciate the support we’ve been doing a lot of episodes lately as you, and see 154 now. So excited to try to reach that 200 level by the end of the year, maybe, or maybe by the end of the next few months. So anyway, if you have comments, questions, please put them in the comments. We will address them at some point and go from there. So without further ado, I’m going to bring on our guest today. I have Michael Wrobleski. Michael, how are you?
Michael Wrobleski
I’m doing well Ryan, thanks for having me.
Ryan Knuppel
Hey, Michael. Really appreciate it. Michael is with Sunny Vibes Ventures, he is in the iGaming space. I’m super excited to hear what you’re up to, but first of all, how’s the weather up there in the new England area for you, Michael?
Michael Wrobleski
It’s cold today, and we’re kind of bracing for this blizzard that’s expected to roll through in the next, I don’t know, 48 hours or so. So enjoy the sun and go out and look at your grass because you’re not going to see it for a very long time after this weekend.
Ryan Knuppel
Yikes, that’s not something I’m used to here in Florida. I don’t get any of that snow, but we are getting a little chillier weather here over the last few weeks. But anyway, it’s funny how we always default to weather is the first thing talk about it. It seems like the default first conversation, isn’t it. Anyway, Michael let’s learn about you. I want to hear about your path, your journey, your career. Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Michael Wrobleski
Yeah, so I started in gaming back in 2004. I was hired by a small studio called WorldWinner, they were located here in the Boston area and they hired me as essentially their first fraud analyst fraud employee. They were doing games of skill online for cash as early as 1999. And so I came on with them in 2004 and at the time we were a very small studio. A lot of our titles were built in house match three games, games that you could take and skillify and in some capacity and provide a platform where our users can kind of compete against one another for cash. And so with that came the need to have some controls in place with regards to funds flowing into the site, funds flowing off the site.
And so they, they brought me on to kind of head up and build out that program for WorldWinner. We were acquired a few times, long story short, we ended up under the Liberty Media Umbrella, who owned DirecTV and Sony at the time. And so with that acquisition, we were kind of blessed with the Sony titles. And so we were able to do Jeopardy, Wheel of Fortune, The Price is Right, like all of these popular game shows that we built out, skillified and put out for cash. We ended up for cash play and we ended up doing a few deals with like Bejeweled and Angry Birds. And so the company kind of did well for a while and I was with them for a decade. And during that time, towards the end of my tenure there, the guys at Draft Kings were building their product in Boston.
And so they came into our office and kind of presented their beta of where the product was at the time. This was probably, I don’t know, 2013,12, something like that. So they came in and presented the product to us as a fellow Boston gaming company. They were just kind of looking for some advice on how to push this thing live, how to stand it up. And so we had a bunch of people in the room who gave them some perspective from their lens, myself included, and so they kind of took that feedback and went back to their lab and push that thing forward and pushed it live. And then shortly thereafter, 2014, they reached out, they were starting to get some traction and some scale and they were building out their team.
And so they reached out it to me to come on board as a Director of Operations. And so I started with them in 2014 and was with them for five years. A myriad of things when you’re, I think I was like the 35th employee, something like that. And so it was an appropriate title time because I was kind of bouncing around and doing a whole bunch of different things from customer support, fraud, and risk chargeback management, the wallet, payments compliance, you name it. Most of it, most of the stuff that I do is kind of under the hood operations stuff. And so I was with them for quite some time and went through an incredible journey with them and kind of helped them get to where they are today.
And I was there for all the fireworks with the New York attorney general and went through that whole drama, I guess you would call it. And then what I would call the cold war with, with FanDuel, certainly there during those times and help them with their international expansion and then help them kind of get aligned for sports betting in the US. We had heard that a lot like others, we were hearing that [inaudible 00:06:23] was going to fail. And so we started to invest resources in that sports gaming product. We wanted to be first to launch in New Jersey, which we were. And so yeah, I helped them get live in New Jersey. And then right around that time, I moved and did a quick cup of coffee in the crypto space, which wasn’t really my thing.
And so now I’m just consulting in the industry. And so I’ve been helping operators who have interest in getting live in the US and there’s a lot of them globally. Cause they can see the marketplace here. So I’m just helping them kind of from an operation standpoint stand up things like their wallet payments with Visa, MasterCard, PayPal, et cetera, ACH, and then set up the foundational things that I had done with WorldWinner/ the Game Show network, and then eventually with Draft Kings. And so that’s kind of where I am today.
Ryan Knuppel
Wow I mean, Michael, that’s quite the lead in here. I mean, that’s amazing career journey that you’ve had. I can’t imagine a lot of things you said resonated with me, one thing talking about a lot of the things you do are under the hood. And what’s funny is, those are the things that kind of go unnoticed sometimes, but they’re just like operations is so important to any business to be able to operate smoothly. And so when I hear director of operations for a company like Draft kings, I think, oh my gosh stress, that had to be stressful. Was that a stressful position for you?
Michael Wrobleski
Yeah it was. Listen, a lot of what we were doing, look, we were a startup. We were a well funded startup, but a startup nonetheless. I mean a lot of the stuff we did, we were learning on the fly. And during our early days, when we started giving away a million dollars every Sunday and we didn’t really necessarily have the infrastructure to kind of handle all the traffic and the website would go down and yeah. I mean, there were a lot of long days. And a lot of early mornings and late nights, but it was fun. It was a fun ride.
Ryan Knuppel
That’s awesome. So let’s fast forward to today. Now you’re off on your own, your company named Sunny Vibes Ventures. I got to ask. Where’d that come from? What’s the business name story there?
Michael Wrobleski
Yeah so it’s a good question. When you’re dealing with payments and gaming it’s a very difficult space and a struggle. And it can be very, very frustrating for not only the people like me who are trying to make it happen, but for the operators, because they don’t really have a great understanding of what it takes to get approvals and all of the stuff that you have to get aligned before you can even approach Visa and MasterCard. And so I wanted to put a positive spin on kind of what I brought to the table and what sort of skills I have. And so I was sitting in my office and just kind of looking around and thinking about what I should call this. And I looked up on the wall and my daughter had painted a picture at school that had a sun and a rainbow and underneath it said sunny vibes. And I was like, there you go, Sunny Vibes Ventures. It is. And so that was pretty much it.
Ryan Knuppel
I love it. That’s awesome. That’s amazing. I mean, I’m all about sun, I’m all about positive vibes. So that’s a great name. I love it. And then…
Michael Wrobleski
Thank you.
Ryan Knuppel
Like you said, in a space like this, I mean, anything that can be uplifting and positive and bring some light to you. So I love that, but tell us a little bit about how that’s going, because I’m assuming that shift for you from big company and working with a lot of people to now being your own boss and being yourself and really consulting it’s just a different beast because you’re the guy, right? You’re the person. And so tell us about that transition and how you’re enjoying that lifestyle of being a consultant.
Michael Wrobleski
Yeah. I really like it. Being able to kind of set your own rules and be as aggressive as you would like to be in terms of how much work you take on and how much you’re doing that part, I really, really like. As far as the business it’s self, I started this in October 2019, so shortly before COVID and I have to tell you, as horrible as this has been for everyone on the planet to a certain degree, it was somewhat serendipitous for me because particularly when retail casinos closed. Everything shifted to digital. So everything I do as far as my consultancy and everything that I work with is on the digital side of the house. I don’t know anything about running a retail casino at all. And there are a lot of people who are smart and know how to do that, but don’t necessarily, particularly now that you have casinos that are leveraging their own licenses with operators, they don’t really have a good grasp of how this whole digital world works.
And so that being said, when COVID hit and everything kind of closed, there was that short period of time where there wasn’t any sports happening at all, but very quickly things kind of shifted online and it became, I was busy. I mean, I was busy throughout because there was still wagering activity happening with some of my clients on the digital side of the house, although their retail establishments were closed. And so, I was still busy. And so that part of stroke of luck, I guess I would say before COVID hit was fortunate for me. And then to be quite honest, there’s so many people who have interest in this space in the US that are not only located in the US, but international interests as well, that I don’t have to do a lot to drum up a ton of business, it’s not like I’m not out knocking on doors a lot of it just kind of comes my way.
And so with that it’s a very fortunate position to be in. So, so far so good. I kind of like it.
Ryan Knuppel
That’s amazing. That’s awesome. And yeah, I mean, you’re right. That’s amazing that you don’t have to like go out and sell and be the salesman as well. I mean when you have knowledge in an industry that is tough to gain that knowledge, not a lot of people have that level of knowledge in it, people find you. I mean that’s just the way it goes and the way it is. But one question I have kind of around that, just that space, how do you keep yourself knowledgeable? How do you educate yourself to keep yourself sharp with all? I mean, because this world is changing. This whole space is so dynamic right now. It’s just always growing and there’s always new legislation and new regulations and new things all over the place. What are some things you do to keep yourself sharp from a consultant inside?
Michael Wrobleski
Yeah. I spend a lot of time on the internet and on LinkedIn and social media keeping track of everything that’s happening. And to your point, it seems like every single day there’s something going on, whether it’s an acquisition or a new player in the space or whatever, there’s just a lot going on. So I always have my finger on the pulse of what’s happening in the industry. And then from a fraud management and payments perspective, it’s really kind of a whack-a-mole type of industry, meaning that you have to keep up with the newest methods to try to defraud some of these operators.
And it just continues to be a whack-a-mole type of thing where like, as soon as you squash one particular approach or one particular method, another thing kind of pops up and on and on go. So sometimes you’re ahead of the curve and you’re prepared for some of these things at, before they come. And then sometimes, you get blindsided by something that you weren’t prepared for, and then you have to make adjustments and move forward. So yeah it’s a dynamic industry. It’s just like anybody else in this industry knows how quickly everything’s happening.
Ryan Knuppel
Oh, it is. And let’s go there for a second. Let’s talk about the industry and just how large it’s becoming. And when we say the industry, we’re specifically focusing on the US sports betting industry here. It’s really what I’m referring to when I say the industry on this show typically. So we just saw New York go mobile when that has been nothing but good things. I think for New York, there’s been a large handle. A lot of companies were really succeeding there. Things going well there in New York, but shed some light on maybe some of the other big states that we still don’t see sports betting in. I mean, we have Florida, we have Texas, we have California, some of the monsters that everybody kind of has their eye on. Like, hey, are these guys ever going to figure it out? Any thoughts on when or if of those areas are ever going to go legal?
Michael Wrobleski
Yeah, Florida, it seemed like we were getting close there for a little while. And I’m sure you have your finger on the pulse of what’s going on down there.
Ryan Knuppel
Well I bet for a couple days, I mean, I was live for a couple days and then it shut down.
Michael Wrobleski
Yeah. So, I mean, I thought we were making progress in Florida. I do think that at the end of the day, something will happen there in 2022, as far as California goes, there’s momentum there. There seems to be at least some dialogue happening between the tribes and the regulators and all the other parties involved. And so at least they’re at the table and they’re discussing what’s happening, which has been a lot of progress in the last, maybe six to eight months in comparison to two years prior to that where the two sides really couldn’t even hold a discussion. And so California’s a big piece of what’s happening. And so, I don’t know, it seems like the governor’s on board, a lot of the regulators, or a lot of the legislators are on board.
It’s just a question of whether or not they’re going to be able to work out some sort of an arrangement with the tribes, not dissimilar to what’s happening in Florida frankly. As far as Texas, I haven’t heard much from Texas recently. You know, the issue with Texas is that their legislature they meet for such brief periods over the course of the calendar year. So it’s very difficult to get things pushed through as opposed to where I’m here in Massachusetts, where the legislatures in session pretty much all the time. And so we’re trying to get some legislation pushed through here. There is some hope that here in Massachusetts, there will be some movement by the end of 2022. I know the governor has said he wants to sign legislation before he leaves when his term is up, I guess at the end of the year.
And so we’re hoping to get something done here, but it’s just a tale of two different approaches where we have legislation in session almost all the time here, and we can’t get anything done. And then you have state like Texas, that legislation or legislators only meet for brief periods. And so depending on where you are it’s a different challenge from state to state. But I’m hoping I have something here in Massachusetts happen before the end of 2022. I think there’s a chance in California by the end of 2022 and possibly in Florida, Texas, I don’t know.
Ryan Knuppel
Well what’s amazing is we are moving forward. It seems like states continue to come on board and I don’t know what the number, exact number is now, but I feel like it’s over 25, maybe we’re at 28.
Michael Wrobleski
I think I saw 31.
Ryan Knuppel
31, I mean, it’s yeah. So we’re up there and again, not all of them are in the mobile space, but at least in some capacity, some sort of legalization. So it’s fun to see the United States getting there and states being able to enjoy betting and enjoy that side of sports. Cause it really is a big part of it. Michael what’s in the future for you. So are you now set? You want to be a consultant forever and that’s kind of what you’re looking to do. You just build that business and build up more relationships in that space? Or do you have bigger plans even beyond that? What does your future look like at least as of now?
Michael Wrobleski
Yeah, so I’m happy with the consultant work at the moment and I’m still taking on clients and kind of working. You know what’s fun about this is that you can kind of pick and choose the operators and the projects that you want to work on. And so there are a couple of projects that I’m working on that I’m passionate about, cause I think it’ll work. I know that you spoke with, with Joel Cettina over at Props Fantasies, I’m working with those guys. And again, that’s a project where, I think there’s a unique spin on the traditional fantasy sports experience. And so that’s why I have interest in that particular project. And so when you run across interesting things you can kind of pick and choose what you’d like to work on, which is great. As far as staying in the consultant world forever. Who knows? I mean, I don’t know if something comes along and the offers right, and everything feels good, then I could see myself getting back into an organization. But for now I’m just going to kind of roll with it and see how it plays out.
Ryan Knuppel
That’s amazing. Yeah. I didn’t know you were working with Joel and the crew over there. They were on episode 152, I believe so just recently we had him on it. Everyone watching have to go back, watch that episode as well. Seems like they got some great things going on over there. So that’s awesome. Michael, this has been great. I don’t want to keep you, I know you’ve probably got some things run to, you’re not going outside, I know that you’re going to stay indoors and stay out of that weather. But any last words. I mean, one, any last words and two, if somebody watching this show wants to get ahold of you seem like such a knowledgeable person in this area. Somebody may be looking for some consulting or just wants to chat industry with you. How do they get ahold of you?
Michael Wrobleski
So the easiest way to get ahold of me is on LinkedIn. So you have my name kind of scrolling across the bottom here and you can find me on LinkedIn and message me that way. That’s definitely the easiest way to get in contact with me. And I’m always willing to chat. I chat with people all the time. It doesn’t necessarily mean that I have any sort of contractual obligation. I’m always willing to chat about what’s going on in the industry and make connections and further kind of expand our world here. And yeah. So that’s, that’s the easiest way to get in touch with me. Yep.
Ryan Knuppel
Cool. We’ll put that link out in the show notes as well. Make sure we get that direct link of LinkedIn on out there. So, Michael, this has been great. I got to ask you’re in the Boston area, are you die hard, Boston Patriots, Celtics, Red Sox, Bruins, all the above. Is that you, you the Boston sports fan?
Michael Wrobleski
Yeah. That’s totally me. One of the reasons why I went into this business. I mean, look I feel fortunate to be able to work in sport. I mean, sports has been a huge part of my life since the beginning and yes, I am that crazy Boston sports fan. And so that’s kind of was the precipice and kind of the Genesis of everything that I do today kind of started when we were kids. But yeah, I am that guy.
Ryan Knuppel
That’s amazing. I pegged you for that. So I got that one right. Most people living in Boston. I mean, they live and breathe the Boston sports. So I understand that mindset, well, Michael, it was really good to chat with. Really appreciate it. Any last words for the audience?
Michael Wrobleski
No listen, I just appreciate the time and you know, I love to come on board and have another chat with you sometime down the road when things evolve and we have some new things to catch up on.
Ryan Knuppel
Yeah. Let’s get up to 40 plus states and we’ll make it another episode and have you on and talk, whatever else is going on. So that sounds like a deal. Cool. All right. Michael Wrobleski Sunny Vibes Ventures. Michael it’s been great. Thanks for being here.
Michael Wrobleski
Thanks guys. Take care.
Ryan Knuppel
All right. That was Michael Wrobleski Sunny Vibes Ventures. We really thank him for coming. Hopefully you enjoyed that one, a little different of an interview than we’ve normally had. Michael doing his own thing in the space and really seems like one of the knowledgeable good guys in this area. So I’m excited to see where he heads and who he starts to work with and continues to work with. What a cool experience working for Draft Kings that’s amazing there. So hopefully you guys enjoyed that episode, that interview I’m Ryan Knuppel, you can find me on LinkedIn or Ryan at Knup Solutions. If you want to email me and find me anywhere out there, Knup Sport Show, knupsports.com, whatever. So appreciate all you tuning in. If you need anything, get a hold of us until then stay safe. Bye-bye.
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