Tune into episode 160 of the Knup Sports Show with special guest Stephen Dunham of Play Globally. We talk about his unique free to play product called LuckyFans that is soon to be released.
Ryan Knuppel
Hey. What’s going on, everybody? Ryan Knuppel here, Knup Sports Show episode 160. Super excited for today’s show. Hey, we’re back. I’m in a little different location, but guess what? The show must go on. We will continue. I appreciate everybody tuning in, listening to everything we do here at the Knup Sports Show. We always like to bring in guests in this space, guests in sports business, guests in iGaming, people that have done something special and are doing something special in this space. And today we have another guest that really I’m excited to talk about, I’m excited to learn more about, and I think you guys are going to enjoy it as well. So let’s without further ado, bring Stephen Dunham on with Play Globally. Stephen, how are you?
Stephen Dunham
Hi, good to see you, Ryan.
Ryan Knuppel
You as well. Really appreciate you joining me today, Stephen. I’m excited to hear what you have going on. But first of all, how are things there in San Diego?
Stephen Dunham
Oh, things are fine. It’s probably the most boring job in the world’s to be a weatherman out here in Southern California. We are on the over under. We’re at 68 degree, so we hit the under today, under 70. But it works out just fine.
Ryan Knuppel
Good, good, awesome. Well, I appreciate you joining me here today. I’m excited to hear more about Play Globally, but first I want to hear a little bit about yourself and maybe a little bit about your career path and what got you to where you are today.
Stephen Dunham
Sure. No, I appreciate that. Thank you. I have probably the most unusual career path of anybody that you’ve ever had on your show. Congratulations, by the way. I love your show. You’ve got-
Ryan Knuppel
Thank you.
Stephen Dunham
Some very interesting characters and leaders and everybody whose really unique in your interviews. So I appreciate being in good company like that.
Ryan Knuppel
We appreciate it.
Stephen Dunham
So yeah, Play Globally came about as a result of many years of creating unique things. So right out of college, I started a chemical company and I grew that. It was in the water treatment industry. We developed a very special type of [polymer 000204] for water treatment plants. We supplied desalination plants and beverage plants and power plants all around the world. We’re the only ones that made this particular type of chemical. And so we grew that and we sold that to some friends of mine up in Canada and did well with that.
Stephen Dunham
And so we were kind of sitting around one day and thinking about how we can make horse sports, rodeo sports, ranch rodeo, even more exciting than it already is, which… I grew up in a horse family and it’s a lot of fun. Have you ever been to a rodeo Ryan?
Ryan Knuppel
I haven’t. That’s on my bucket list actually. I need to get to one.
Stephen Dunham
Okay, well,
Stephen Dunham
So there’s a sport in ranch rodeo called Penning and Sorting. And in these sports, you have cattle that are in an arena and a team on horseback goes into this herd and they cut out using their horses. They cut the cattle out in a particular order. So about three o’clock in the morning, one night we were sitting in the jacuzzi, drinking some wine out of the bottle and we thought, “Okay, how are we going to make this more interesting?” We thought, “Well, what if we glued gigantic playing cards on the cows and a team goes in and cuts out the best five card poker hand?” So we developed this, we started playing with it. We started testing it and it grew, and it became its own business. And in the second year we had 10,000 rides. We were in Australia, all across the US. I worked with PBR at the PBR BlueDef finals in Las Vegas. So it’s really a lot of fun.
Stephen Dunham
And then what happened was very interesting. We saw the value of this going into a digital space. At the same time COVID was starting to happen. So we got IP protection on it. We got a patent on the idea of placing cards on animals and then on athletes. So what if we took it to horse racing? What if we took it to NASCAR? What if we used it in Major League Baseball and soccer and the NBA? And so we continued to develop this. We surrounded ourselves with the smartest people in the industry. Our advisory board, we have Susan Hensel who’s legendary in the space. Victor Pronk is a big leader with incentive games. Ed [inaudible 000426], of course, has been a big help. Anybody named Seth in this industry is… That was so. So we surround ourselves with some really great people and developed a new digital product called LuckyFans that contemplates live action sports. We place digital playing cards on all the players. A leaderboard plays out and short version is at the end of it all, you get a seven card poker hand that’s determined by the results of live in play sports action.
Ryan Knuppel
Wow. My mind is a little like blown at the concept. That’s such a unique concept, a unique game. How’s that going? I mean, has it been adopted? I mean, is it something that people have to wrap their head around or… I mean, tell me where it’s at currently. [crosstalk 000521]-
Stephen Dunham
Yeah, it takes a minute or two. And then once you get used to seeing when LeBron James hits the three pointer and now all of a sudden you have a full house, that’s very, very exciting. So really the game keeps you right on the edge through the entire match. You can play one minute, you can play three minutes. You can play an entire game. You can play an entire season.
Ryan Knuppel
Really?
Stephen Dunham
So it’s been a lot of fun. Right now, this month we’re releasing our prototype. So we have a prototype team that’s been working on this very hard for a couple of years now. And we have an app team which will complete the final product. So prototype team is ready for release. This month, we’re releasing with the NBA. We work very closely with Sportradar who’s been outstanding through all the prototyping, the testing, so big shout out to those guys. And so we’re excited to see where, where it takes us. In fact, the prototype was working better than expected. So we’re going to put it out there live. We’re writing the rules right now and we’ll have prize money and it’s free to play. So there’s no wager and you can play it anywhere, anytime.
Ryan Knuppel
You just led me into the next question that was on my mind is… So it’s free to play game and there is, or there’s going to be prize money that comes out of that. Now is there this vision that will change in the future? Will it go from free to play to some sort of a buy-in type game? Or is it a free to play product forever?
Stephen Dunham
Yeah. Great question. Well, we are a very opportunistic company. If there’s value there, we want to attach ourselves to that and help drive that. So yes, I mean, it’s a random number generated based product. So it would be illegal in four states if we wanted to go that direction right now. But you know, what I really like is the value for sports books right now, where they’re trying to get as many users on board as they can, to do it as efficiently as they can, to do it with something that’s unique, retain those users long term. Not just be able to do those things with a live game, but being able to acquire and continue to grow their user base and retain users even in the off season or in the middle of a night when there’s no games. So a free to play game, like ours, has the ability to do that.
Ryan Knuppel
I think that’s the name of the game these days. I mean, customer acquisition and how you’re going to get your leads, right? Everybody’s fighting to capture people’s attention and to get them in the door and so free to play games like yourself are very, very important in that ecosystem.
Stephen Dunham
Yeah.
Ryan Knuppel
And having a unique product like you do, that’s so unique than anything else out there, I’m assuming it won’t be a hard sell to get into some of these sports books. Now that’s probably easy for me to say, right? But how’s that going? Who are you starting to work with? Are you starting to get in with anyone yet? How’s that journey going for you?
Stephen Dunham
Yeah, it’s going great. We’ve had very, very good responses from everybody that we’ve spoken with. You know, everybody wants to see the prototype work. We invite early adopters to come and participate with us. We’re very easy to work with, but it’s been a very, very good feedback the whole way through. We love the community and I think this sports books see that there’s a lot of value.
Stephen Dunham
Look, they’re paying hundreds of dollars to acquire a user and it’s no secret that over the past six months even. The numbers are just not as great as they could be. And so in any business, if you can lower your cost of user acquisition, if you can extend your retention in the off season, middle of the night, then that’s good. If you can do it for a whole lot less… Free to play. I mean, we’re not in the hundreds of dollars per user acquisition.
Ryan Knuppel
No.
Stephen Dunham
We’re sub $20. We’re probably sub $10. You know, there’s some models that we have that bring it down sub $5. So there’s incredible value there, and especially when you look at our demographics for Play Globally, specifically on this product, you’ve got people who love sports, it’s a poker game, they love to gamble and it’s totally unique. So if a sports book or two can get their hands on on that triage, if you will, then we think that there’s a lot of value there.
Ryan Knuppel
What’s not to love? Sports plus poker equals heaven and I love them both, but adding them together is like a match made in heaven. So that’s amazing. That’s a cool product. That’s awesome. Now are you guys planning other products and other games and things of that nature or is this the core game that you’re running with? What’s the plan there?
Stephen Dunham
We do. Our rollout plan right now is specifically and very focused on the LuckyFans product. We’ve learned a lot through the development of our prototype. What’s really nice about the way that we built this is that we’re releasing it this month for the NBA, but we also have a model for Major League Baseball. And the MLB product is very fun, very exciting and it turns a maybe a little bit slower game, compared to basketball, into something that’s very exciting. We have kind of prop bets in between every pitch. And so there’s a lot of very interesting things that are focused into that.
Stephen Dunham
We do have some other IP that we’re developing. We’re always driving something that’s unique. We’re actually writing a patent right now on a new type of wagering product, but those are things that’ll be rolled out later on. Right now we’re driving the LuckyFans product, re-skinning it for NASCAR, re-skinning it for PGA, etc. And that’ll be the rollout for the next 18 months.
Ryan Knuppel
Cool. Yeah. NASCAR, PGA. Those would be great. I can just envision playing it around those sports would be amazing. That’d be a great time, I think. Well, that’s awesome. I mean, Stephen, sounds like a lot of success going on. LuckyFans. So where do people play it currently? They download an app and just play it? Do they have to get associated with a certain other site? How do they play it currently?
Stephen Dunham
Yeah, we’re officially releasing it within probably about a week or two. And so to get on the special list, anyone can find me on LinkedIn, drop me a note, I’ll put you on the list and then we’ll release it. Right now, really the only thing that we’re making adjustments to is having it totally compatible with iPhone. So on Android, it works great. On an iPhone, it’s a little quirky. We’re fixing that now as per normal and we think we’ll have that done in the next week or two.
Ryan Knuppel
That’s really cool. That’ll be fun. We’ll make sure that when that does happen, we’ll get links out on our site and everything. Hey, I don’t want to let you go quite yet. I haven’t gotten my fair share of time yet. So I want to switch this over to business real quick, because you seem like a seasoned professional in business and with the role you have currently and with all you have going on, I’m sure you’ve had your fair share of challenges. I always like to ask this question. What’s one challenge that you’ve had to overcome, during… starting of this company and this game and all of this going on. What’s one of the biggest challenges that maybe you can warn other entrepreneurs or other CEOs out there to help them out in the future?
Stephen Dunham
Well, it’s the same challenges that we all have. You’re an entrepreneur. I mean, you know what it takes. And to me, I don’t really see them as challenges. It’s just part of, I’ve always been an entrepreneur ever since I was a little kid. So for me, it’s just normal. I find challenges as opportunities. If it was easy, if all the answers came readily, everybody would be doing it and it would be impossible to be unique.
Stephen Dunham
And we have shareholders, we have lots of allies in the industry and there’s always pressure. “Hey, when’s it coming out? When are we going to deliver this? Let’s go, let’s go.” And the key thing is I think being patient with ourselves and not going out with something that’s imperfect. So what that takes is a deep-seated belief in our team, an understanding of the market and availability to pivoting. So many of our current opportunities didn’t even exist a couple of years ago, so being opportunistic and patient and having fun with it and never ever, ever giving up, as you know, as a successful entrepreneur, those are the things that are necessary for any business.
Ryan Knuppel
Patience. Patience is one of the hardest qualities to have as an entrepreneur because… we want it. We want to go, we want everything to happen fast, and we want things to…
Stephen Dunham
Yeah.
Ryan Knuppel
Be perfect, right? And just having that patience and belief and trust that you’re doing the right things and you’re moving in the right direction. Such a good quality to have, but it’s tough. That’s a tough one. That’s good advice.
Stephen Dunham
A famous movie line that I really enjoy. I think it was in the Princess Bride and Billy Crystal plays a wizard and he says, “You can’t rush a miracle. You end up with screwed up miracles.”
Ryan Knuppel
That’s a good one. I’m going to use that one again. I like that quote. That’s good. That’s awesome. That’s cool. So Stephen, so let’s move on to just a quick other topic because you and I are sitting in two states that still haven’t legalized sports betting. California, you guys haven’t made it happen, Florida, I really thought we were going to make it happen by now, but some hurdles have come up and now we haven’t. So I know you’re not a lawyer… You don’t have a glass ball crystal ball, but if you were to guess when California was going to legalize sports betting, what would you say? Are we still years away in California?
Stephen Dunham
Oh man. Well, without getting too deep into our politics on this side of the world, I don’t think it’s any secret that, especially with COVID and the expense pressures that are on our local government… I mean, our gas price is the highest in the whole country, maybe in the whole world and a lot of that is California tax. Taxes in California, they just find a way. And so that deficit needs to get filled. Obviously this is, I think, the seventh biggest economy in the world. If there’s a new revenue stream through sports betting, that is massive. I mean, it’s kind of a no brainer. So that said, it is politics. It does take a while. I’m very optimistic that it’s going to move forward. It is moving forward and the sooner, the better. I know there’s a ton of support. I don’t think there’s anybody opposed to it out here. So I think it’ll happen.
Ryan Knuppel
Yeah. And you keep hearing that. I keep hearing nobody’s opposed to it and there’s all, but it’s like, “Where is it? Let’s go. Let’s move forward.” I mean, I think there’s so much revenue out there for, just like you said, for states that need it. I mean, they clearly need the revenue. This whole being legal in one state, not in another, just does not… I can’t wrap my head around it still. It’s like, is it legal or not legal? I don’t really get it. But it’s one of those gray areas I’ll never understand. And I guess it’s just the beauty of United States and having state by state governments and that’s just what we got to deal with, right?
Stephen Dunham
Yep. Like we were saying a moment ago. I mean, it’s like a business. We have to just be patient. We have to trust that it’s all heading in the right direction. And I’m optimistic that it’ll be legalized here soon.
Ryan Knuppel
Yeah. You know the one cool thing about being in the sports betting industry and in this space and having all these states still yet to be legal, there’s still so much to look forward to. So I guess that’s one thing that I can… hang my hat on is like, “Okay, it’s not like everything’s here. We’re all live and rolling.” We still have so much opportunity here just in the United States for growth. And so that really opens my eyes to like, man, this industry is just beginning in the United States. Sports betting and sports gaming and all the above around it. So lots of fun times to be had I think here soon.
Stephen Dunham
Well here’s where we’re headed is… And that’s a great point out that, yes, let’s take Florida. Let’s take California. I consider those emerging markets, right? It’s going to happen and [inaudible 001738] very exciting and just kind of tying in where the LuckyFans product comes in is it’s free to play. You can play that here. You can play it in Florida. You can play it anywhere you want. And remember our demographics. It’s exactly the sports book demographics. So we have a number of people we’re talking with right now who are excited about building those demographics now, investing in California, investing in Florida as emerging markets and with the flick of a switch, as soon as it’s legal, they’ve got thousands, hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of qualified, viable players. Instant user base.
Ryan Knuppel
I love it. Yes. I knew. I knew I asked that question for a reason… No, but perfect. I think that makes so much sense, having that list ready to go and engaged people that are playing something already that now they can turn into real users, if you want to call it whatever. Paying users, cash users, however you want to call it. Yeah. That’s so powerful to sports books and operators. So that’s amazing. Yeah. I think working in those markets right now is a kind of a feather in your cap. I think that’s really cool. So good luck with that.
Stephen Dunham
[Crosstalk 001849].
Ryan Knuppel
There’s plenty of people are in Florida, I know, that love sports. They love betting. They love poker and they’d be all in.
Stephen Dunham
Absolutely.
Ryan Knuppel
So we’re going to make sure we get them going here once LuckyFans is up and running.
Stephen Dunham
Outstanding. We look forward to it. It won’t be long. Just give us a week or two.
Ryan Knuppel
Hey, are you guys working with any… This is a random question, but are you guys working with any of the sports teams in leagues? Is that a space that you have to get in working with or not really? Is it more just these operators?
Stephen Dunham
We are. We’re working… At this point again, we’re very opportunistic. So we’ve had very good conversations. Major League Baseball’s been great with us. NASCAR’s been really great with us. We have some very nice opportunities even with Liverpool FC. We have opportunities with five Major League ball clubs, which-
Ryan Knuppel
Cool.
Stephen Dunham
Once we get MLB launched and we get the kinks worked out, I think there’s some cool opportunities there. In fact, what we’re building into our LuckyFans product now is a little factor called the Private League. And so you or a sports bar or an entire baseball club can create their own private league. So effectively what happens is that you can be invited to participate in a private game with a private leader board with your own set of prizes and… you’re on the leader board. So as people play, they can see in real time while they’re watching the game, they can see whether they’re moving up and down the leaderboard. So if you think about going to a Padre’s game or an Angel’s game or a Rockies’ game or a Brave’s game or the Red Sox, and the there’s a QR code out in the field, and you can join a private league competing with everybody else in the stadium, that’s where we’re headed. So we think those relationships are really valuable. We’re excited to start working with them just as soon as we have our product ready.
Ryan Knuppel
Awesome, Stephen. Well, it sounds like it’s coming. That’s great. Well, I’ll let you go, Stephen. I know you’re a busy man. I really appreciate your time here. And all the transparency you gave towards what you guys are doing with LuckyFans and Play Globally and everything that you’re doing there. Hey, how can people get ahold of you? I know you mentioned LinkedIn earlier, but… If somebody listening wants to get ahold of you, what’s the best way?
Stephen Dunham
Sure. Just drop me an email. I’m at Stephen with a pH, S-T-E-P-H-E-N. Stephen@PlayGlobally.com.
Ryan Knuppel
Awesome. Cool, Stephen. We really appreciate it. I look forward to like episode 200 or so coming back. You’re live. You’re in all the states. You have all this going on. You’re with every sports book operator and we’ll get an update here in a six months or so.
Stephen Dunham
I love it. Sounds great. Thanks for having me, Ryan. I appreciate it. Have a great day.
Ryan Knuppel
[crosstalk 002132] Take care. All right, bye bye.
Stephen Dunham
You too. Bye bye.
Ryan Knuppel
All right, guys, that was Stephen Dunham with Play Globally. LuckyFans coming out here very soon. Super excited to see that game. And I always love a free to play game. Have some great history, playing some awesome free to play games and so I’m excited to see another one and see how they go. Hey, for all of you guys tuning in, really appreciate your support for this show. We’re up to episode 160. It’s been an amazing journey and we hope to have many, many more. So if you know somebody that wants to be on this, please get them with me. I’m Ryan Knuppel at K-N-U-P about on any channel. Find me out on LinkedIn, wherever you can. So hey, until next stay safe. We’ll talk to you soon. All right. Bye. Bye.
Relevant Stephen Dunham / LuckyFans Links
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Learn more about the Play Globally at https://www.playglobally.com/
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Check out his Linkedin at https://www.linkedin.com
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Contact Ryan Knuppel
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